Refugees In Jesus

Quote:
Rabbi Messiah Yeshua accepts the female role in responding to our husband Adonai. Examples, He said, "I have come to serve and not to be served." He always gave all the glory reflected unto His Father, Our Husband/Bride-groom. Everything He did was under the authority of His Headship, Adonai.



John 3:
28: Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29: He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30: He must increase, but I must decrease.
31: He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32: And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33: He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34: For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35: The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Matt. 25:
1: Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2: And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3: They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5: While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6: And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7: Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8: And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9: But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Rev. 19:
7: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8: And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev. 21:
9: And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10: And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

If as the last two scripture references say that the Lamb is the bridegroom, that Lamb, as we all know, can only be Jesus. Jesus is not the bride of the Father, he can only be the Son of the Father, just as the Church has always believed and taught.

After all, we don't hear about the Father, Bride, and Holy Spirit, do we??? Nor do we hear about the Father, Mother, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity is, and has always been, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I agree Gary.

Drew, where does your quote at the top of that post come from?

This is a quote from ThomasSCU3, from his writings on his Jewish/Messianic site.

Thank you. I haven't been over there for quite some time, myself.

You're welcome Bro.

I am hoping that Thomas will see the question and respond.

Gee, now why would this strike anyone funny in the least bit?

-some of you are Oh G-D PRAY FOR HIM!!
others might be he's a wierd brother well
just smile and nodd and maybe the blond will leave the campsite without eating much of our food.


Hi Yall!
here's the missing link to the original context.
http://eocu.invisionplus.net/?mforum=eo ... &#entry638

Elena told me, when she saw "RABBI MESSIAH YESHUA" then she knew who it was being talked about without question. Gee, does not anyone else call him that? The Artists for Israel Orthodox Jewish Bible calls him that. Yes, read that over again. http://www.afii.org/


Ok. Please read over the CONTEXT for there is QUite a lot to be spoken, 5 posts worth! And I do not feel like converting all those posts to here.

Beyond this, I will assume you HAVE read them all and we are discussing and quoting it here. Unless anyone wants to make a quick and easy membership over at Echad and talk there also.
Thank you Gary and Drew for both being interested and reading at Echad.
I would LOVE to hear what you are reading. Even if we talk over here . Better than nothing. Though i like to talk on Echad too.
I love you guys, you got good hearts. and the more you explore the Messianic range and Jewish thoughts, the more reconcile we create. Thru understanding.
[/b]

Simple question who is the Bride Groom?

Is not Yeshua the Lamb of God and the Church the Bride of Christ?

Ok here is an attempt at a simple statement: relationship and orientation.
These are the key to understand this paradigm.
Now the outline points of this paradigm are in blue.

Adonai, Everlasting Creator, forever blessed. Husband to Isra'el as of Sini Mosaic covenant. Yes, Torah is their ketubah (wedding contract).

Now, when Messiah came, he walked on earth AS the Living Torah, the Walking Word of God, the example of complete and total submission (Wife) unto Adonai (Husband).

Messiah Yeshua is spoken of AS the EXAMPLE of how husbands are to love their wives. Yes, Rabbi Paul in Ephesians 5 (context:21-33).





(ready for the paradigm)

(ready for the paradigm)[/COLOR][/I][/B]


Rabbi Messiah Yeshua did nothing that He did not see His Father first doing. He even healed on Shabbat, as in the context of this quote from John 5, Rabbi Yeshua justifying why He did such an action.


Continuing the theme of submission to Adonai as a wife to husband. She submits to his headship and under his leadership blossoms and serves him well all his days. See Proverbs 31 for more description of such a wife. Such wife Adonai deserves and such wife He will bless us with if we are also so obedient to his Torah. This is what Rabbi Paul talks about in Ephesians 5:21-33. The quotes below, Ephesians 5:31-33, are in reference to the wife's submission obedience.








Between John 14:10 and Ephesians 5:31-32 and Genesis 2:24
there is an unique idea posed: That Messiah is one flesh with Adonai, they are ECHAD, they are one in being and not separated. They relate as husband and wife, while in reality Messiah is Isra'el and Gentile's example how to relate to God.
God is that example himself for Messiah IS Adonai. They are One being, there is no separation.
The human example of marriage is flawed and correct view at the same time, in that physically there are two but spiritually they are seen as one flesh.

So, now Yeshua not only gives an example for the men folk, being submit to Adonai in all you set your hands to do. He also gives an example to the females how to be in submission to their husbands, just as He is submit to His Head, Adonai.

Concerning Messiah as Walking Torah and God in Flesh, One Echad with Creator. Atonement was a submissive obedient deal.

Messiah IS NOT a separate thing from Adonai Creator. Messiah is the pure manifestation of Torah, this is God's prepared body to be able to walk among humans and be the example for us and purchase our redemption thru a costly atonement, death. FOR it was not enough to have animals, they only covered temporally. Messiah's atonement bears our diseases on his Torah perfect sinless flesh (Isaiah 53). This is the renewal Covenant that all the major prophets spoke of and especially emphasized in Jeremiah 30-33, and especially Jer 31:30-33.

Now what we have in Messiah is the example of being totally submit to Torah, in total submission to Adonai Elohim, the perfect Israelite Jew, from the line of David and Judah. He was submissive and obedient and trusting completely his Husband, the God of Isra'el. He lived under and within the Torah ketubah covenant.


Rabbi Messiah Yeshua is the example we are to mimic in everything...
..in submission to Adonai obedience
..in males submit to Adonai and acting as husband
..in females submit to Adonai and submit to their husband



If he did away with Torah, the ketubah and established a new religion that is either post-Judaism, second thought post-Judaism, or replacing Judaism totally, then this wife rejected her Husband and started an affair with someone else similar, or got a divorce and remarried Adonai using a different name. [font=Arial]This is the footwork that Replacement Theo needs to jump thru to explain away Torah in Messiah Yeshua.[/font]

A ketubah (Hebrew: כתובה ; "document"; pl. ketubot) is a Jewish prenuptial agreement. It is considered an integral part of a traditional Jewish marriage. It states that the husband commits to provide food, clothing and marital relations to his wife, and that he will pay a specified sum of money if he divorces her.

Because of the DIVORCE it was necessary for YHWH to establish a NEW COVENANT.

In Jeremiah there is a particularly striking statement:

"Turn, 0 backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you." (Jeremiah 3:14)

Perusal of the context reveals that the appeal is addressed to the northern kingdom of Israel, the ten tribes:

"And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also." (Verse 8)

Thus Israel is depicted as the divorced wife of God.

When a man takes a wife he bestows his name upon her and she becomes a guardian of that name; so God entrusted His Name to Jacob's descendants, the Israel people, when He changed Jacob's name to that of Israel. He could not honour Israel more, for the last syllable 'el' means God, and according to Dr Robert Young, the word in its entirety means, "ruling with God."

At Sinai the children of Israel were formed into a kingdom - God's kingdom. Thus Israel, when submissive to the Law of the Lord, constituted the Theocratic State, "married" to the Lord. However, Israel proved unfaithful. She set up and worshipped other gods and, transgressing the Divine ordinances of worship, she became grossly idolatrous. She cast aside the Divinely- given constitution consisting of the Commandments, Statutes and Judgments. This was nothing less than an act of rebellion for the national organisation, as set up by God, contained no provision for human legislative authority.

Hence Israel, having proved disloyal to God and having dishonoured His Name, was cast aside, as several of the prophets testify. Hosea declares!

"Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband." (2:2.)

And again,

"Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi, for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God." (1:9)

Nevertheless, Israel was not to remain in her divorced condition; she was to be rebetrothed and restored, to her married state as Hosea later declares:

"And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi (my husband); and shalt call me no more Baali (my master) ... And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in loving kindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto Me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord." (2:16, 19-20)

The theme of the restoration of Israel to her married state is closely bound up with the redemption wrought by Christ. Isaiah 49, addressed to Israel in the Isles, concludes with the words:

"I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob."

The next chapter opens with the question:

"Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away. Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? When I called was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have, I no power to deliver?" (Isaiah 50: 1, 2.)

This theme of the redemption of Israel from her divorced or widowed condition is continued in Isaiah 54: 4-8.

"Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. For thy Maker is thine Husband; the Lord of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called. For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer."

The climax of the theme is reached in Revelation 19:7, 8:

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

In this passage the bridegroom is undoubtedly our Lord - "the Lamb of God," the bridegroom mentioned by Jesus in His parables and discourses - and the bride is the once divorced but now rebetrothed wife - Israel.

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/jehovahwife.html


Jesus would come down from the Mount of Olives, and would go and speak and teach the words of His love to the people, just like Moses came down from the mountain and spoke God's commandments to the people. People would speak their vow to Jesus when they confessed their sins to Him and decided to follow and obey Him. At the Last Supper, Jesus spoke His vow to all people, the words of the New Covenant, and afterwards He and the Disciples went to the Mount of Olives.

For this is My blood of the New Covenant which concerning many is being poured out for remission of sins. But I say to you, I will not at all drink of this fruit of the vine after this until that day when I drink it new with you in the kingdom of My Father. And singing a hymn, they went to the Mount of Olives.
(Mat 26:28-30 LITV)

Jesus Himself was the blood sacrifice needed to cover the sins and to seal the New Covenant and Marriage. The sacrifice and death of the Husband would take place at Jerusalem, the permanent home of God's wife.

From that time, Jesus began to show to His disciples that it was necessary for Him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised on the third day.
(Mat 16:21 LITV)

Jesus, the arm of the Lord, then redeemed all people by His sacrifice on the cross. By His resurrecting power, He brought them out of their bondage of sin, leading the way to a new life with Him.

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. (Joh 14:6 MKJV)

Jesus personally reconciled the relationship between God and His wife, making it alive and tangible, not dead and separated. Jesus is the very image of God come down to Earth and now His people can become one with Him. God made man first as a copy of His image, but now, through Jesus, they can be made new to become an actual part of His image - one body. The relationship of Jesus to the Church is also compared in scripture to a relationship between a Husband and wife - Jesus being the Head and the believers being the body.

“giving thanks to the Father, who has made us fit for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who delivered us out of the authority of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the remission of sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation. For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible; whether thrones, or lordships, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and all things have subsisted in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the assembly, who is the Beginning, the First-born out of the dead, that He be preeminent in all things; because all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him, and through Him making peace by the blood of His cross, to reconcile all things to Himself; through Him, whether the things on the earth, or the things in the heavens. And you then being alienated and hostile in your mind by evil works, but now He reconciled in the body of His flesh, through death, to present you holy and without blemish and irreproachable before Him”
(Col 1:12-22 LITV)

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
(Eph 5:23 MKJV)

http://toknowandtolove.blogspot.com/2005/10/married-in-wilderness-again.html

There is a New Covenant a new ketubah signed with the Blood of Yeshua, Who has paid the Bride price.

The branches (Israel) have been broken-off from the Olive Tree (The promises to Abraham), and the wild olive(Gentiles) grafted-in, but praise God Israel shall one day have the scales dropped from blinded eyes, and open their hearts to the Messiah.

When the Heavenly Marriage of the Lamb is come we shall all be one.

YHWH has given us a suriety, within our hearts and lives:

Being good enoughbeing free from bad habits and bad behavior, earning enough "points" on the ledger of good behavioris not what brings about a new spiritual birth in a person. Salvation is solely a matter of believing in Jesus. The repentance and change of behavior come later as the Holy Spirit prompts it, and also as Holy Spirit helps a person to accomplish it! It is vitally important for you at this point to come to this understanding: Nothing you do apart from believing in Jesus Christ causes you to be saved. When you believe, the Spirit enters into you and causes your old sin nature to be transformed into a new nature that is in the likeness of God. The transformation of your spirit is a sovereign work of God; you cannot do it on your own, achieve it through your will or behavior, force it to happen by any other means than believing.

If you believe that your salvation came about by anything other than simply believing in what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross, then you believe that your salvation was in some way related to your own will and to your own works. If you believe that your salvation is related to your will and your works, then you will believe that your will and your works can in some way "undo" or negate your salvation.

On the other hand, if you believe that your salvation was based solely on what Jesus did for you and what the Holy Spirit has done in you, then you believe that your salvation was a sovereign work of God. Your part was simply to believe and receive what God provided and what God promised. The person who believes this must therefore conclude that since he did absolutely nothing to transform his old sin nature into a new spiritual nature, he cannot do anything to cause his new spiritual nature to revert to his old nature.

2 Cor. 1:
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

2 Cor. 5:
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Eph. 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Earnest:

Strong's Number: 728 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ajrrabwvn of Hebrew origin (06162)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Arrhabon 1:475,80
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ar-hrab-ohn'
Noun Masculine
Definition
1. an earnest
a. money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid
John Gills exposition of 2 Cor. 1:22

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

2 Corinthians 1:22

Who hath also sealed us?

"Two" things more are here attributed to God; "first", the sealing of his people. The use of seals is various, as to denote property in things, to distinguish one thing from another, to show esteem and affection for persons or things, and for security and protection, and to hide and conceal; all which might be applied to sealing, as expressive of the grace of God to his people, in claiming a property in them, distinguishing them from the rest of the world, setting his affections on them, securing and protecting their persons, and hiding them under the shadow of his wings: but sometimes a seal is used to certify, make sure, or assure the truth of a thing; see (John 3:33) (1 Corinthians 9:3) (Jeremiah 33:10) in which sense the word "sealing" is used here, and intends that assurance which God gives his people of their interest in his love, and the covenant of grace; of their election of God, and redemption by Christ; of their interest in Christ, and union with him; of their justification by him, and adoption through him; of the truth of grace in their hearts, their perseverance in it, and sure and certain enjoyment of eternal glory. The persons thus sealed are not carnal and unconverted persons, only believers in Christ, and these, after they commence such; the seal by which they are sealed, is not any of the ordinances, as circumcision under the Old Testament, or baptism, or the Lord's supper under the New; for these are no seals, nor are they ever so called; but the Spirit of God himself, as the Holy Spirit of promise; for the same who, in the next clause, is called the earnest, is the seal; see (Ephesians 1:13) .

"Secondly", the giving of the earnest of the Spirit:
and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts:
by "the Spirit" is meant, not the gifts and graces of the Spirit merely, but the Spirit of God and Christ himself; who was concerned in the creation of the world, in inditing the Scriptures, in forming and filling the human nature of Christ, and in his resurrection from the dead; he himself is given as an "earnest": the word (arrabwn) , here used, and in (2 Corinthians 5:5) (Ephesians 1:14) is the Hebrew word (Nwbre) , and comes from (bre) , which signifies "to become a surety, to give a pledge"; and is used for a pledge in covenants and bargains, both in Scripture, see (Genesis 38:17,18,20) , and in Jewish writings F4; which is given as an earnest, and in part of what it is a pledge of, and is never returned: the Spirit of God is an earnest or pledge of the heavenly inheritance, which is not only prepared for us, and promised to us, and Christ is in the possession of in our nature, in our room and stead, and as our representative; but the Spirit of God also is sent down "into our hearts" as a pledge of it; where he dwells as in his temple, supplies us with all grace, witnesses to us our sonship, and assures us of the heavenly glory: and as such he is "given"; and an unmerited free grace gift he is; for him to be given in this manner, and for such a purpose, is a wonderful display of the love of the Father, and of the Son, and is a surprising instance of his grace and condescension of the Spirit, and for which we should be abundantly thankful.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Believer has the absolute irrevocable guarantee from God of eternal redemption through the very indwelling presence of God the Holy Spirit. It is our seal that we ARE His for eternity.

Surety:

2 a : a formal engagement (as a pledge) given for the fulfillment of an undertaking : GUARANTEE b : a basis of confidence or security

Main Entry: 3earnest
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ernes, ernest, from Anglo-French arres, erres, plural of erre earnest, from Latin arra, short for arrabo, from Greek arrhabOn, of Semitic origin; akin to Hebrew 'ErAbhOn pledge
1 : something of value given by a buyer to a seller to bind a bargain
2 : a token of what is to come : PLEDGE

It is within the heart of the Believer that the Holy Spirit produces spiritual fruit, and this fruit is evidence of the sealing of the Believer which has taken place.

A fruit of the Spirit is faith, and it is this faith by which we are saved.

Ephesians 2:
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galations 5:
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is saved, those who are saved, our Lord has declared that NONE can pluck them out of the Father's Hand. Those who preach a salvation dependent upon our matinance deny the power of God to Draw us, Seal us, Stablish us, to Maintain us.

1 John 2:
19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

When a man divorces his wife, for unfaithfulness, he can marry another, but if so, He cannot marry his first wife again for she is defiled. If he marries his first wife again, that is ok. She is not defiled.

There is no remarry the first wife after taking a second.

How does this fit for you?