Refugees In Jesus

"The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold." Psalm 18:2 ESV
It is currently Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:37 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:39 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 2731
Location: Mankato, MN
This is the passage we were supposed to study in our Bible study class at church yesterday. I thought maybe I’d post my own thinking about it here. The translation I’m using here is the TNIV.

Quote:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


The first point I want to make deals with the first seven words of the first sentence, “The wrath of God is being revealed…” Older translations often say the wrath of God is revealed. However, my study is showing me that the word translated “is” or “is being” means “constantly or continually is being revealed.” So it’s not a one time thing, but has been happening from the time of Adam’s sin up until today. It’s not just something that happened at the time Paul is writing this passage. We can apply it to today.

The second interesting point is that the people “suppress” the truth by or in their wickedness. I think this is something to keep in mind as we look at the mindset of these people.

The third point is that God has revealed himself through his creation, and God’s message to us here is that what can be known about God through his creation is enough that people should be able to see that he does exist, and not only that, but he has immense eternal power and a divine nature. Do we see that when we look at the creation? God says here that we should.

The next section makes it clear that, although people should know God just by looking at the creation, they do not.

Quote:
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings and birds and animals and reptiles.


God’s power and divine nature are clearly seen through his creation, but people refuse to give him glory, and instead they rebel and turn away from God, taking instead for themselves gods of their own making – that’s idolatry.

I ask, do we see enough evidence of God’s power and divine nature when we look at nature and his creation? We should, according to this passage. It even says we have no excuse, because it’s clearly revealed. Why do we not see it? Is it because we don’t want to see? Is it because we have been blinded by some evil force that doesn’t want us to see?

This scripture places the blame squarely on us, whether the devil is involved or not.

Quote:
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


Therefore God gave them over…

They refused God. They rebelled, and turned to their own way. Their sin leads them into sexual impurity and idolatry, and they believe a lie, rather than God’s truth.

Quote:
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

God gave them over… Is this a second time? Or is it just a continuation of the first? At any rate they turn farther away from God by turning from the natural order to an unnatural order.

Quote:
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


And so here they are. They have turned away from God and their lives have become nothing but sin. They are so blinded by their own sin that they can’t even see what a bad thing it is. They actually are calling evil good by this point.

When we read this passage we can do a lot of finger-pointing. Do you see any of these sins that you are committing in your life? We need to examine ourselves when we read this passage, and not just point our fingers at what other people do. Do you see any of your favorite sins on that list?

You don’t? That’s fine. Just wait until we get to chapter two. That’s when we see those other fingers on our hand that are pointing back at ourselves.

_________________
"Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong."
1 Corinthians 16:13 (ESV)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:47 pm 
Offline
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Upstate NY
Gary,

Your thoughts have composed a good study. :rose

Consider the reason that the wrath of GOD is being revealed from heaven is because mankind keeps sinning. As the family of man continually sins, GOD's wrath is continually being revealed ...against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Your second interesting point raises a question: what truth is being suppressed? To those who continually disobey GOD's moral laws to face His punishment, how can they know His mercy and His compassion? Is this part of the truth that is being suppressed? Is it the very nature of GOD that is suppressed?

Micah 6:8 states, in the same version, "8 He has shown all you people what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." GOD would not tell His children to love mercy unless the Lord GOD loves mercy.

Quote:
Quote:
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings and birds and animals and reptiles.



God’s power and divine nature are clearly seen through his creation, but people refuse to give him glory, and instead they rebel and turn away from God, taking instead for themselves gods of their own making – that’s idolatry.

I ask, do we see enough evidence of God’s power and divine nature when we look at nature and his creation? We should, according to this passage. It even says we have no excuse, because it’s clearly revealed. Why do we not see it? Is it because we don’t want to see? Is it because we have been blinded by some evil force that doesn’t want us to see?


What is darkness? It is the absence of light. What darkness is referenced by the above? Being separated from the light by not knowing GOD. Why would people not know GOD? They do not want a relationship with Him. This is very sad.

Thank GOD, praise Him, and give Him glory. This is all part of having a personal relationship with Him. GOD wants his children to be humble. We should not boast about ourselves. Claiming to be wise is tooting our own horns, or puffing ourselves up. If we are full of ourselves, we have little room for GOD. Those who do not see GOD do not have a relationship with GOD. Praise draws GOD closer to us. Those who do not thank and praise Him or do not think of Him are closing the door of their heart to Him. When they shut him out, they are in darkness and their hearts grow cold. Cold hearts to not see the glory of GOD. :sad

Remember to keep them in prayer. Tomorrow may be too late to repent. This must be done now.

_________________
Elena

Isaiah 48:16: "Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:14 pm 
Offline
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Upstate NY
Hey Brother Gary,

How long do we have to wait for Chapter 2? :scratch

_________________
Elena

Isaiah 48:16: "Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:29 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 2731
Location: Mankato, MN
:grin Oh, uh, I hadn't thought about it, Elena. Sorry! :dunno

We have been looking at chapter 2 in our SS class, but the class is so shallow it's been hard to come up with much that's worth talking about here. I've really only been going to the class to cultivate some friendships with church people who never ever came to my classes, as well as to see what kind of teacher our pastor's wife is.

_________________
"Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong."
1 Corinthians 16:13 (ESV)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:15 pm 
Offline
New Member !

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 12:31 pm
Posts: 9
My impression of verse 19 is that it is much stronger than trying to see some vaguer revelation of God in nature or the heavens. It says that He has made it plain to them.

That tells me He has added His inner witness in the human heart to what it seen. It is also the kindling of the idea that when we hear the truth of God spoken, something in our spirit testifies (even before salvation) that we are hearing truth about God.

That is why I think God can be forceful in the ending words - so that all are without excuse.

With just the look at nature alone, man can say he didn't get it in any comprehensive way, because it is more of a latent disclosure not a patent one.

How also does God hold man in the jungle accountable if he can claim that nothing specific was revealed that he should become accountable?

Being without excuse means we have had it made clear.

Mike


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:11 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 2731
Location: Mankato, MN
Hi Mike! Nice to see you!

Yes, I think the argument is very clear and your point is strong.

Gary :java :shades

_________________
"Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong."
1 Corinthians 16:13 (ESV)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:24 pm 
Offline
Disciple
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 283
Location: Council Grove, KS, USA
Good study Gary;

Quote:
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



One might want to incorporate verse 17 and 18, so as to emphasize that both the righteousness and the wrath is revealed. It seems like a window into Heaven has been opened and the True God has shown through to His creation, continuously from the beginning.

_________________
A servant of Christ,
Drew

Psalm 51:
10: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Romans 1:18-32
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:59 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 2731
Location: Mankato, MN
That's a good point, Drew! I'm sure you've noticed, as have I, how often Bibles will put a break at certain places, including a chapter or a topic heading, when the subject is really tied together and needs to be see as a whole. This is a good example.

I pulled this off of Bible Gateway as an example, from the ESV:
Quote:
"...among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have..."


If Drew hadn't pointed this out, I would have gone on thinking that we are talking about two separate topics. But when we read the scriptures, the important thing is "context, context, context!" And that isn't only the context of the verses around a particular verse, nor is it the context of that particular book of the Bible, nor even the context of the particular covenant/testament. It must be the context of the entire Bible.

_________________
"Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong."
1 Corinthians 16:13 (ESV)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group